From the beginning, it was clear that Joker 2 was always going to switch up Arthur Fleck’s story, with the main update being the musical twist.
But does that make it a musical? Well, according to Todd Phillips and co., Joker: Folie à Deux’s singing status is up for debate. (In everyone’s defense, if you’ve got Lady Gaga belting show tunes, then it’s easy to stick it in the genre.)
Based on what we know about the new movie, there’s a few clues as to whether this technically counts as an official musical, but there’s still some discrepancy in what the cast and creators have been saying.
So, what’s the deal? Is Joker 2 a musical, and if so, why are they so reluctant to call it that? Here’s what we know.
Joker 2 is a very specific kind of musical
Since Joker 2 will include the characters singing songs that are interwoven into the narrative, yes, it is by definition a musical.
However, it’s what’s known as a “Jukebox musical“, meaning the numbers are made from preexisting songs, not written specifically for the movie. (Think Mamma Mia! and Moulin Rogue!) However, according to Variety, there will apparently be one or two original songs included in the soundtrack.
At least 15 songs will be featured in the sequel, including classics from other musicals like ‘That’s Entertainment’ from The Band Wagon.
Rumors first began circulating after some comments from composer Hildur Guðnadóttir gained traction online. The Joker 1 & 2 composer teased “there is going to be a lot of music” in the 2024 sequel. “That’s all I can give away,” they said in an interview with ComicBook.
Around the same time, Variety also reported the sequel will involve “complicated musical sequences,” with one insider allegedly claiming Joker 2 is similar in ways to A Star Is Born.
Some took this all to assume the film might be a musical on the whole, perhaps ditching the serious nature of the first and running wild with a series of song and dance performances as the Joker continues his spiral toward insanity. The trailer, with its over-the-top song and dance sequences, seemed to confirm this.
The conflicting comments explained
Although by definition Joker 2 is technically a musical, various members of the cast and crew have tried to say that it’s not, leading to some backlash from fans.
On February 14, Joker 1 & 2 cinematographer Lawrence Sher shot down the leading theory, arguing it’s not, in fact, a musical at all.
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“It just has music in it, that’s all,” Sher clarified. “Music is a part of the movie and the characters, but I don’t know if it’s a musical.”
In August 2024, Todd Philips said of the movie [via Variety]: “Most of the music in the movie is really just dialogue. It’s just Arthur not having the words to say what he wants to say, so he sings them instead.”
Then, at the 2024 Venice Film Festival, Lady Gaga said: “I wouldn’t necessarily say that this is actually a musical in a lot of ways. It’s very different. The way that music is used is to really give the characters a way to express what they needed to say because saying it is not enough.”
These are all thoughtful explanations, but as many musical fans have pointed out, these are the very definitions of what makes a musical.
As noted American dancer and choreographer Bob Fosse once said: “The time to sing is when your emotional level is just too high to speak anymore, and the time to dance is when your emotions are just too strong to only sing about how you feel.”
Why is Joker 2 not being called a musical?
While there’s no explicit reason as to why those directly involved aren’t classifying Joker 2 as a musical, it’s probably because Hollywood has developed an aversion to marketing musicals in recent years.
Once upon a time, musicals were the backbone of Hollywood. However, in recent years, it’s become a trend to hide the fact that films are musicals, particularly in trailers. The marketing for Wonka, Mean Girls, and, most recently, Wicked have proved that studios seem cautious about overplaying the musical card.
Put simply, musicals aren’t guaranteed to make as much money as non-musical properties. For instance, Steven Spielberg’s 2021 remake of West Side Story only made $76 million against a $100 million budget.
Joker, being a comic book-inspired movie, has a particular fanbase that might not be so open to watching a musical, which probably plays a big part in why everyone involved is trying to avoid classifying it as such.
Joker: Folie à Deux releases in theaters on October 4, 2024.
Until then, check out the 10 best movies like Joker to watch before Joker 2. You can also take a look at all the upcoming DC movies, and find out what the best superhero movies of all time are.